A
Brief History of the Robidas Surname - Submitted by
Victor Robidas
The first use of the Robidas name was approximately in the
year 1565 in France. Matter of fact, it was used by anyone
who lived in Auvergne. Auvergne was brought to the English
Crown while it was under the domination of England
(1154-1485). This occurred when the King of England, Henry
II Plantagenet, married Eleanor of Aquitaine which Auvergne
was a part of.
Changes to the Robidas Surname
Throughout the course of History, the Robidas surname
underwent a number of changes as most other surnames did.
The reasons for the changes are numerous. Family members may
have opted not to spell their surnames the same way.
Sometimes, the name changes occurred when it was verbally
given to a scribe or a priest, and phonetically registered.
Some names were altered just because of different political
and religious views. As a result, we have many variations of
the name Robidas. They are: Robidou, Robidoux, Robidout,
Robidan, Robidant, Robident, Robida, Robidat, Robidas, but
all were included in the basic origin of the surname.
As the members of the Robidas family became numerous in
Auvergne, they began to form branches in other regions. As
an example, the branch Robidant was established in a village
in Côtes-du-Nord. The different surnames even spread further
when 16th century France became aware of her European
leadership and New World exploration. This led, of course,
to the different versions of the Robidas surname immigrating
along the eastern seaboard of North America, where from
north to south, New France, New England, New Holland and New
Spain were created.
A
Brief History of the Manseau surname by
Janet
Manseau Donaldson
The Manseau name originated with Jacques that first
pioneered Québec, because he came from La Mans, France.
There is even a town in Québec named Manseau. The “dit”
between is like “aka”. … In Canada before 1800 the name
Manseau (with variation) was used more often than the name
Robidas.
Notes for for Gabriel Robidas-dit-LePelletier (pre Manseau):
Gabriel was a master shoemaker (maitre cordonnier).
Gabriel seems to have used either name Pelletier and
Robidas. Perhaps "Pelletier" was a description of his type
of work. In French it means someone that deals or works
with furs or skins (a pelter). These pelts may have been
used in his work as a shoemaker. Hence, he could have been
known as Gabriel Robidas the pelter. In the past few years,
genealogists have found documents proving that Gabriel
signed his name Gabriel Robidas almost as often as Gabriel
Le Pelletier. Le Pelletier would be his "dit" (aka) name.
I have added (pre Manseau) to Gabriel's file name to keep
him separate to my other Pelletier ancestors and to list him
with his son Jacques that started the Manseau "dit" name in
Canada.
Notes for Jacques Robidas-dit-Manseau-LePelletier
(1665-1741):
"Les origines familiales des de pionniers du Québec
ancien (1621-1865)" is a French book published periodically
under the direction of Marcel Fournier (coordonnateur du
Fichier Origine). Anyone that does genealogy of the old
Québec (1621-1865) families can submit new finds for
publication in this book. Nothing is published here that
has not been proven and documented. The book that I will
quote was published in March 2001. Page 226:
ROBIDAS / MANSEAU / LE PELLETIER, Jacques, baptisé le
14-08-1665 Le Mans (St. Nicolas) (Sarthe: 72181), Marie,
fils de Gabriel Le Pelletier et Anne Crespin. Chercheur:
Jean-Marie Germe, OEDS, 1999, p. 7. Ref.: DGFQ, p. 995.
St. Nicolas is the parish where Jacques was baptized,
Sarthe is the name of the provence or county in France where
the records for the village of Le Mans are recorded and
numbered. This translates to: Jacques Le Pelletier born 14
Aug 1665 in Le Mans, marries, son (fils) of Gabriel Le
Pelletier and Anne Crespin. The research worker (chercheur)
was Jean-Marie Germe. His documents can be found at OEDS,
1999, etc.
Jacques was baptized as a Catholic under his father's "dit"
name, Jacques Le Pelletier. He was born on 14 Aug 1665 at
St. Nicolas in Le Mans, Sarthe, France. Jacques never used
his father's "dit" name "Le Pelletier" in New France. He
used his father's surname Robidas, most likely because this
was required by law in the recording of marriage contracts
and in the census. Because he was known as Robidas from Le
Mans, he was given the "dit" name of Manseau. This may have
been the name assigned to him when he was a Sergeant in the
military. In those days all military enlisted men were
given a new name that identified them and their unit. It
was like the military number given to today's military
personnel. "Dit" names (nick names) were common in France
and Canada during that time period. Later on the Canadian
government forced their citizens to use only one of their
dit names. As a result, Jacques descendents used either
Robidas or Manseau for their surnames, not LePelletier.
He arrived in Canada 23 Aug 1688 as a Sergeant in the
Crisafy Campaign.
He is not related to Jacques Manseau married to Marquerite
Latouche, one of the Kings Daughters. This Jacques came to
Canada from France with the name Manseau before Jacques
Robidas and is not of the Robidas-dit-LePelletier family.
Neither Jacques nor Marie Louise could sign their
wedding contract on 14 January 1692 in Montréal. They were
granted a dispensation of the usually required three bans
(wedding announcements). I am not sure why. She does not
appear to be pregnant at the time. Of course they wasted no
time. Their first child was born 9 months and 11 days after
they were married. Perhaps the dispensation of the wedding
bands was granted because there was no priest at the
wedding. At least one was not listed on the cumulated
document at PRDH. A Captain Demine was listed. Perhaps he
performed the ceremony.
In recording his death, Father Cardin a missionary of
La Baie du Febvre wrote that Jacques Robida LeMenseau was 85
years old. Note the spelling of the name in this document.
Denomination in old Québec
As they naturally fell under the laws and customs of
France of the Ancien Régime, inhabitants of the St. Lawrence
Valley in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries all had a
family name and a first name. Children inherited their
father’s family name, and men transmitted this name to their
children. Married women kept their family name at birth, at
least in religious, administrative and legal documents.
These customs have played in favour of Québec genealogy
because they facilitate the identification of people by
name. Nevertheless, practical problems do arise. In
particular, spelling was not standardized, and both family
and first names could be spelled in several different ways.
Although first names can generally be recognized fairly
easily, this is often not the case for family names. Data
gathered from old documents can be difficult to read because
letters can be confused, and the problem is complicated
further because a number of names are similar – Boucher and
Baucher, for example. Because most people were illiterate,
their names come to us via an intermediary and were
submitted to the vagaries of pronunciation, regional
accents, and other factors. Added to this are the inevitable
typos at the data-entry stage. Take the dit name Manseau
(from Le Mans) and see the variations in the list below.
Therefore, it is not surprising that a name may at
least be written in many different ways, if it is not in
fact confused with another. That is why the names in the
PRDH were standardized: each name is presented in a standard
form that groups together all the variations found for this
name in the documents. For example, the name Charbonneau is
recognized under 55 different spellings, covering common
variations – Charbono, Charbonnau, etc. – and errors of all
kinds – Charbonnauu, Cherbonau, etc. You can find out about
the spellings associated with each name and the frequency of
each associated spelling in the approximately 700,000
certificates in the PRDH’s data base.
Another problem with denomination concerns the use of
nicknames, often referred to as "dit names", because they
are introduced in French by the word "dit" meaning "said",
which abound in the nominative history of old Québec. They
have many origins: military nickname, sobriquet related to a
physical characteristic, immigrant’s place of origin, name
of fief for nobles, mother’s family name, father’s first
name, and so on. Some go back to the ancestor, while others
are introduced by descendants; some are transmitted, others
not; some belong to an entire family line, while others
concern only a single branch. In short, it’s a real
hodgepodge! From a practical point of view, an individual
can be designated by a nickname at just about any time, and
no rules can be made to predict when. That is why we have
prepared, for information purposes, a list of all family
name-nickname associations found in documents prior to 1800.
The list does not take account of the order of name and
nickname in the certificate, as the distinction between name
and nickname was often not clear. Thus, the association
between Gauthier and Larouche will appear in the lists at
Gauthier and at Larouche, which list all the occurrences of
Gauthier called Larouche and Larouche called Gauthier, with
the same frequency. Frequency is obviously the key element
that enables us to differentiate the associations of which
we must keep track from those that result from rarities or
errors. When priests are excluded, the association between
Hudon and Beaulieu is the most frequent, with 1474
occurrences.
Before 1800, the name Manseau ranked 387th and was used
265 times in baptismal. This surname covered the
descendants of two Manseau men that arrived in Canada in the
1600s. Also under the descendants of Jacques Robidas-dit-Manseau
were his descendants that carried his original surname
Robidas. Robidas ranked 1024th and was used only 90 times
in baptismal records before the 1800s.
There are 27 variants for the name MANSEAU in the pre 1800s'
PRDH files:
|
Standard Name |
Variant |
Frequency |
|
|
|
|
|
MANSEAU |
LEMANCEAU |
23 |
|
MANSEAU |
LEMANCEAUX |
6 |
|
MANSEAU |
LEMANSEAU |
6 |
|
MANSEAU |
LEMENSEAU |
1 |
|
MANSEAU |
LEMONCEAU |
6 |
|
MANSEAU |
LEMONCEAUX |
8 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANCEAU |
411 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANCEAUX |
12 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSAU |
140 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSAULT |
7 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSAUS |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSAUT |
1 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSAUX |
28 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSCAU |
3 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSCEAU |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSEAU |
996 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSEAUX |
67 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSIAU |
4 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSO |
72 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSOT |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSSAU |
5 |
|
MANSEAU |
MANSSEAU |
14 |
|
MANSEAU |
MEMSEAU |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
MENCEAU |
5 |
|
MANSEAU |
MENSAU |
1 |
|
MANSEAU |
MENSEAU |
8 |
|
MANSEAU |
MENSO |
2 |
There are 13 variants for the name ROBIDAS in the pre 1800s'
PRDH files:
|
Standard Name |
Variant |
Frequency |
|
|
|
|
|
ROBIDAS |
ROBIDA |
584 |
|
ROBIDAS |
ROBIDAN |
2 |
|
ROBIDAS |
ROBIDARD |
3 |
|
ROBIDAS |
ROBIDAS |
32 |
|
ROBIDAS |
ROBIDAT |
5 |
|
ROBIDAS |
ROBIDATS |
1 |
There are 15 Nicknames (dit names) used in official
documents for Manseau:
|
Standard Name |
Variant |
Frequency |
|
|
|
|
|
MANSEAU |
DECHAVIGNY |
10 |
|
MANSEAU |
DESILETS |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
GANAULT |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
LABOESNERIE |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
LABONNERE |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
LABONNERIE |
38 |
|
MANSEAU |
LAJOIE |
16 |
|
MANSEAU |
LARIVIERE |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
MOURSIN |
10 |
|
MANSEAU |
ROBIDAS |
68 |
|
MANSEAU |
ROBIDOU |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
SOUVIGNY |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
ST. JEAN |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
TELLIER |
2 |
|
MANSEAU |
VITRAI |
2 |
Notes for Gabriel Robidas-dit-Manseau (1692-1769):
He was a special person, highly respected in the
community. He was described as having the aptitude to learn
anything he wanted to. His Godfather was Antoine Crisafy...his
father's commanding officer.
Gabriel bought land situated in Baie Saint Antoine from
Francois Rousset of Trois Rivières on Apr 25, 1723. He was a
master cob.
cobbler (maitre cordonier).
His great grandson, Antoine Robidas-dit-Manseau
(1788-1866), son of Antoine and Marie Louise Cote, was
ordained on 2 Jan 1814. At 56 years old, he was the first
priest of the village of Industry (now known as Joliette) in
the region of Lanaudiere, Québec. After having been a
missionary in the Maritimes, he became "vicar-general" of
the diocese of Montréal, from which he refused the episcopal.
Collaboration between Antoine Manseau and Barthélemy
Joliette proves to be profitable; they worked together in
the establishment of the parish and the creation of the
college of Joliette and the Antoine Manseau Academy.
His 3rd great grandson, Rev. Martial-Antoine-Octave
Manseau, was so well liked for his work that the "Village of
Manseau" was named after him. This is how the story goes:
The Village de Manseau: In 1896 during the construction of a
railroad in the area, a railroad station was built on the
edge of the "Riviere du Chene" in order to satisfy the
request of the lumber company named "Moose Park Lumber"
which was established in the Blandford County. The railroad
station and the post office were named "Moose Park" Not far
from there was the parish of St. Joseph-de-Blanchard which
was established in 1899, and their first rector, from 1899
to 1907, was Reverend Martial Manseau. Born in
Victoriaville, Québec in 1870. As the years went by, Moose
Park grew in population and eventually it required its own
parish and rector. So in 1922 a part of the parish of St.
Joseph-de-Blanchard was detached and formed the "Village of
Manseau" in honor of the first vicar Martial Manseau. He
was the son of Louis de Gonzague born 1825. Today the
Village of Manseau has a little over 1.000 people.
Gabriel Robidas/Manseau (1692-1769) had a son named
Joseph with both his wives. Well I have been checking out
this situation and I guess that PRDH must be right about
Joseph Manseau, born 25 Jun 1716, married only once, because
his wife Marie Josephe Pinard/Beauchemin did not die untill
1793 and Joseph would not have been allowed to get married
before she died. So I must agree that Gabriel had a second
son named Joseph with his second wife Marguerite
Constantineau. This Joseph ( birth ??? ) married Catherine
Lafond on 8 Aug 1774.
